the justsoft cheat...

[dpaull414]

So how could a player confirm they are not a cheat? meempg is actually my wife, and I know with 100% certainty she does not cheat. Her scores are legitimate.

Of course I realize my assurance will do nothing to change your mind; you will most likely simply say "whatever, liar"!! And I don't blame you. I've seen her play, and her speed and memory is amazing. If I hadn't seen her skills every day for the past 5 months playing Clue, I wouldn't believe it.

If it makes you feel better when she first started playing the game she'd only make it 3 rounds before she'd lose. Now pretty much the only person who gets her is unkown.

Anyhow, what could a player do to prove she is legit? Onsite witnessing is probably impractical If you want to see her play in person we live just north of Houston TX if you want to come over.

We have a webcam, we could record her playing and put it on youtube. I guess the question is if a player is sophisticated enough to cheat, wouldn't they be able to fix the video to make it look convincing? And wouldn't it be easy to just say she's running some special software to assist her gameplay? Or is a webcam sufficient to squash concerns?

Ultimately I suspect the only way to prove you're legit is to play at some neutral site on 3rd party hardware? And then of course if you had more than 2 people playing there you'd end up violating WW's term's of service and get banned!

Is it valid to suspect somebody cheats because they are consistently good? Especially in a game like Clue which has no real luck aside from occassionally clicking 2 unknown tiles and getting a match? You flip cards, memorize what they are, and click as frickin fast as possible removing them. It's not like solitaire where you can blow up and not finish.

Anyhow, I find this to be very interesting and wonder if we can resolve anything!

thanks,
Don

It's been something discussed in PMs with other clue players some of them I didn't realize. RezzotheWanderer, and thattrout.gsn, are suspected but very likely cheats. Then theres meempq, andziessmartgirl whoa re pretty much confirmed cheats. I think thattrout and rezzo do cheat. I don't play very much anymore so I KNOW I'm leaving out a few more cheats and I can't go back far enough in my games to get their names. How do I know they cheat? Their scores are way too high all the time and way TOO consistent. FLuke scores? Okay but every game getting scores that high? Yeah right.

[Mygirl]

So how could a player confirm they are not a cheat? meempg is actually my wife, and I know with 100% certainty she does not cheat. Her scores are legitimate.

Of course I realize my assurance will do nothing to change your mind; you will most likely simply say "whatever, liar"!! And I don't blame you. I've seen her play, and her speed and memory is amazing. If I hadn't seen her skills every day for the past 5 months playing Clue, I wouldn't believe it.

If it makes you feel better when she first started playing the game she'd only make it 3 rounds before she'd lose. Now pretty much the only person who gets her is unkown.

Anyhow, what could a player do to prove she is legit? Onsite witnessing is probably impractical If you want to see her play in person we live just north of Houston TX if you want to come over.

We have a webcam, we could record her playing and put it on youtube. I guess the question is if a player is sophisticated enough to cheat, wouldn't they be able to fix the video to make it look convincing? And wouldn't it be easy to just say she's running some special software to assist her gameplay? Or is a webcam sufficient to squash concerns?

Ultimately I suspect the only way to prove you're legit is to play at some neutral site on 3rd party hardware? And then of course if you had more than 2 people playing there you'd end up violating WW's term's of service and get banned!

Is it valid to suspect somebody cheats because they are consistently good? Especially in a game like Clue which has no real luck aside from occassionally clicking 2 unknown tiles and getting a match? You flip cards, memorize what they are, and click as frickin fast as possible removing them. It's not like solitaire where you can blow up and not finish.

Anyhow, I find this to be very interesting and wonder if we can resolve anything!

thanks,
Don

You're right I don't buy in any way that she's legit and you, her husband, will hardly do anything to prove that. Webcams etc.. are useless when proving the legitimacy against any player for the simple reason its still very easy to hide time altering software or whatever the software of choice is for the cheater.

And yes it is valid to suspect somebody of cheating for being consistently good. No one is consisently good without making a mistake, ever. When I used to play all the time in Clue, I never once saw your wife have to replay a board. Where as I have seen other players even the ones who I know do cheat have to replay the board. I just flat out don't buy that.

In any event the clue player base is declining and from what I've heard through PMs from other former players your wife is one of the reasons they stopped playing and also unknown was mentioned a lot in it too. By the way, unknown DOES cheat to. I've seen the player in other games enough to know they cheat. Killing a game is almost as bad as cheating in the games. To be quite honest. Jessica has flat out killed Monopoly to the point its dead and Clue seems to be heading in that direction. But worse in Monopoly as a division 1 player you either get stuck with jessica or with the asshat cheat bellyam. SO its a lose/lose situation.

[Mygirl]

Oh and the For the record Dpaul-I've never reported your wife for cheating. The only ones I've reported are steelerchick and unknown because I know they also cheat in other games.

[dpaull414]

Well, for what it's worth if the other people are cheating, they're not doing it well enough to beat meempg who isn't cheating. So there can be some hope for the legit players. She and unkown have both posted their tips/strategy on the WW premier boards. The information is available for people to improve their gameplay.

If you're ever in Houston, drop us a line and you can come over and be a witness to the mayhem.

see ya,
Don

You're right I don't buy in any way that she's legit and you, her husband, will hardly do anything to prove that. Webcams etc.. are useless when proving the legitimacy against any player for the simple reason its still very easy to hide time altering software or whatever the software of choice is for the cheater.

And yes it is valid to suspect somebody of cheating for being consistently good. No one is consisently good without making a mistake, ever. When I used to play all the time in Clue, I never once saw your wife have to replay a board. Where as I have seen other players even the ones who I know do cheat have to replay the board. I just flat out don't buy that.

In any event the clue player base is declining and from what I've heard through PMs from other former players your wife is one of the reasons they stopped playing and also unknown was mentioned a lot in it too. By the way, unknown DOES cheat to. I've seen the player in other games enough to know they cheat. Killing a game is almost as bad as cheating in the games. To be quite honest. Jessica has flat out killed Monopoly to the point its dead and Clue seems to be heading in that direction. But worse in Monopoly as a division 1 player you either get stuck with jessica or with the asshat cheat bellyam. SO its a lose/lose situation.

[dpaull414]

I just find this topic massively interesting because like most WW players I suspect others of cheating. Some are obvious like the Zuma freeplay a few months ago where some nobody comes up and pops a score higher than Ovo or boyz81 have ever put up. It's like WHATEVER! Others are more annoying because certain players just beat you over and over and you wonder how it's possible somebody can always beat you (this happens to me in dynomite daily)!

But in this case I KNOW meempg isn't a cheat. And how often is anybody best (or co-best with unkown) at something.

I just wonder if there is any real way for skillgaming which happens anonymously with no observation to ever alleviate fraud concerns. If that Swiss ski jumper who won Gold didn't do that in front of an audience, everybody would assume he cheated because he did so much better than everybody else.

And the ironic thing is that meempg is concerned about cheats too because who wants to lose to cheats!

see ya,
don

Oh and the For the record Dpaul-I've never reported your wife for cheating. The only ones I've reported are steelerchick and unknown because I know they also cheat in other games.

[Mygirl]

Well, for what it's worth if the other people are cheating, they're not doing it well enough to beat meempg who isn't cheating. So there can be some hope for the legit players. She and unkown have both posted their tips/strategy on the WW premier boards. The information is available for people to improve their gameplay.

If you're ever in Houston, drop us a line and you can come over and be a witness to the mayhem.

see ya,
Don

No one said cheaters can cheat well. I mean the cheats in SR are proof of that since Amy can beat most of them. And just because someone puts "tips" out doesn't mean their legit I know unknown cheats. It was great proof when I played him in MPI and he was right off the bat in the playing getting outrageous scores when its known that game is ALL memorization and you can't memorize the boards within one shot when it first comes out like that player did. Even the supposed "cheat" Articsnowbunny took time to memorize the boards, I did, Northwitch did etc..

[Mygirl]

The two main issues with skillgaming is the cheats and the players who quite frankly kill the games(like Jessica with monopoly). I think if WW implemented a way that if aplayer won 90/95 percent(meaning coming in first) of their games it would eliminate both cheats and game killers. Those two things are killing a lot of games in WW. If your wife isn't a cheat then she definitely falls into the category of "game killer" based on my experience with downplaying Clue and others who I've chatted with through PM.

I just find this topic massively interesting because like most WW players I suspect others of cheating. Some are obvious like the Zuma freeplay a few months ago where some nobody comes up and pops a score higher than Ovo or boyz81 have ever put up. It's like WHATEVER! Others are more annoying because certain players just beat you over and over and you wonder how it's possible somebody can always beat you (this happens to me in dynomite daily)!

But in this case I KNOW meempg isn't a cheat. And how often is anybody best (or co-best with unkown) at something.

I just wonder if there is any real way for skillgaming which happens anonymously with no observation to ever alleviate fraud concerns. If that Swiss ski jumper who won Gold didn't do that in front of an audience, everybody would assume he cheated because he did so much better than everybody else.

And the ironic thing is that meempg is concerned about cheats too because who wants to lose to cheats!

see ya,
don

[dpaull414]

We've actually discussed the topic of "game-killing". It is an interesting question as to how much you should play if you are 'the best' in something. Our conclusion is largely based on our misfortune with King.com and that of other people's experiences we've read about. You never know when your account will be wrongfully terminated. So you may as well play as much as you can and enjoy it while it lasts. Being 'Right' doesn't really matter if the site decides to nuke your account!

And really it's up to the site to match players fairly. I hate losing, but what I've found on WW is that in dynomite & luxor I can win some money, but what I need to do is only enter tournaments that pay multiple positions. And I need to realize that half the tournaments I enter will be against the best of the best and I will lose. But the other half I will win more than I lose, and typically win enough to offset my sure-losses. But it takes a lot of guts to hit "Replay this tournament type again" when I just played a luxor tournament and lost by 60k ..

The two main issues with skillgaming is the cheats and the players who quite frankly kill the games(like Jessica with monopoly). I think if WW implemented a way that if aplayer won 90/95 percent(meaning coming in first) of their games it would eliminate both cheats and game killers. Those two things are killing a lot of games in WW. If your wife isn't a cheat then she definitely falls into the category of "game killer" based on my experience with downplaying Clue and others who I've chatted with through PM.

[Mygirl]

We've actually discussed the topic of "game-killing". It is an interesting question as to how much you should play if you are 'the best' in something. Our conclusion is largely based on our misfortune with King.com and that of other people's experiences we've read about. You never know when your account will be wrongfully terminated. So you may as well play as much as you can and enjoy it while it lasts. Being 'Right' doesn't really matter if the site decides to nuke your account!

And really it's up to the site to match players fairly. I hate losing, but what I've found on WW is that in dynomite & luxor I can win some money, but what I need to do is only enter tournaments that pay multiple positions. And I need to realize that half the tournaments I enter will be against the best of the best and I will lose. But the other half I will win more than I lose, and typically win enough to offset my sure-losses. But it takes a lot of guts to hit "Replay this tournament type again" when I just played a luxor tournament and lost by 60k ..

Heres the thing in Clue I KNOW I don't belong in Division 2 but it's also Unfair that i have to play against your wife, and cheaters like the ones I'e already mentioned. Even playing multiple paying spots doesnt it cut it for me. So now I can't play one of my favorite games BECAUSE of said cheaters and game killers. WW is NOT king and WW doesn't ban cheaters they more so tend to ban people for being game killers. I've seen lots of legit game killers get banned but not the cheaters. Like I said your wife is killing the game, dont worry shes not the only one. Most of the players who are good tend to avoid the lower paying games and it leave it to the other not-so-good-but-too-good-for the other divison players. Which quite frankly I think is the proper thing to do. Yes winning money is a godo thing but thinking about whats BEST for the game is important. Clue is basically another Deal or No deal or Monopoly because of all the game killers and cheaters. It'sa beyond frustrating situation because there are basically NO games I can play now that I ENJOY because of the cheaters and gamekillers WW doesnt give a flying rats ass about. Bellyam is known CHEATER and anyone with a brain knows that and shes EVERYWHERE in Monopoly. I played one of the 75 cent games for kicks and she was there. Its stuff like that that bothers me about the site that WW ALLOWS this shit to happen without a care in the world.

[bmy1]

In WW:

Of all the games i play, the only games I'm pretty sure nobody cheats are WOF and hangmania.

All games will be subject to "game killers" unless WW changes its M.O.

Like others have said, if you are winning too high of a PERCENTAGE of games against the top tier of competition, I am of the view that you should be limited in what you can participate in. I would suggest survivals, ladders and freeplays.

DOND is the prime example where a single player is so much better than the next best player. Legit or not, this player wins 99% if not 100% he/she enters in one try. EVERY time.

Most games, at the top levels, there is enough parity that at least a small handful of players will win their share of games. The small handful may win 95% of the games, but at least it's not ONE person. It's really hard to draw the line as to when to limit and when not to limit. What if FOUR players won all the games at the top level and everyone else didn't stand a chance? Would it be right to ban those 4 ppl? I don't know.